Halting hunt: ranking (2026-10-13)
None of the four scouts (deep, margins, parked, hints) saw an in-scope machine halt. So no pick has a halt to replay; nothing here is a kill. Only tools/check_kill.sh --halt PASS counts.
The ranking follows the brief:
- a halt seen in simulation (none this round);
- a shrinking margin with a model route;
- machines whose exact models can run much further.
Picks are deduplicated by table family. Table identity was checked here by relabeling and mirroring states.
Scout tables: scout-deep.tsv, scout-margins.tsv, scout-parked.tsv, scout-hints.tsv (same folder).
Picks
| Label | 740 line | Machine | Family (same table) | Why | Model route | Main risk |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| H-1 | 686 | 1RB0RB_0LC0RA_1LE1LD_0LE---_1LF0LC_1RA1LB |
347's table: 347 (A), 441 (B), 686 (D, mirrored) | Closest margin approach in any family: k_align/(M-1) = 0.9755 at phase 1572 (324 incs spare). In this table halting comes only from margin breaks. | 347's validated fast phase map (deepen3_fast.py), already 30/30 on 686's phase starts |
Mild breaks are harmless in 347's tests. A halt would sit at 1e14+ steps. |
| H-2 | 244 | 1RB0RA_0RC0LE_1LD1RF_1LB1RD_1LD1LE_---1RA |
CounterClass3v1 halter tables: 244, 216, 701 | After startup each one runs the table of a certified upstream HALT (CounterClass3v1). That module's accelerator holds for our tables. | hints/cc3acc.py (port of upstream astep/P0_n), plus a new wave-level macro step |
Already 70x past TM4's halting point. The class is busy upstream. |
| H-3 | 269 | 1RB1LA_1RC1RE_1RD0RD_1LA1RC_1RF0LE_1RA--- |
R5's table: 269 (A), 43 (D, mirrored) | Ours (STUCK). Halting is decided at counter overflows. The first overflow (4.391e15) did not halt, and the next one is still unreached. | parked/r5/r5q.py (seeded qsim, validated), plus a new epoch/overflow model |
The next overflow is probably far beyond any certificate. Epochs look self-similar. |
| H-4 | 362 | 1RB0LF_0RC1RD_0LD0RA_1RC0RE_1RF---_1LA0LB |
One table: 362 (A), 433 (C) | qsim keeps up: a Collatz lottery still drawing (10^145.8 steps in 180 s). The same table has a certified halt from start B (RWLAccHaltv6.v). | qsim exactly as the deep scout ran it (k=4, backsymbol + prover + recursive), longer | A pure lottery with no margin trend. Upstream's RWLAcc sweep has probably already tried these starts. |
All four are outside Astra's claims: lines 443/533/615 and the class 'Bouncer + Chaotic Edge'. None is in an open busycoq PR (#3, #4, #13, #17, #18 checked today) or in an excluded mined class.
Claims still needed before anyone creates machines/<tm>/: 686, 244, 216, 701, 362, 433 and 43. Only 269 is already ours.
H-1: line 686 (347's table, Bell eats counter)
Signal.
- On 686's own orbit the margin reached k_align/(M-1) = 0.9755 at phase 1572 (M = 13,204, k_align = 12,879).
- 347's own orbit never went above 0.467 (to phase 16,800), and 441's stayed at or below 0.42.
- The fast map has run 686 to phase 15,304 (M = 153,097, about 2e14 steps) without a halt.
- The only other phase above 0.5 is phase 725 (0.73).
- In this table halting comes only from margin breaks. From 347's notes: 3 halts in 380 phases with M-1 < k_align, and 7 in 3,293 with M forced below k_align.
Model route.
- Resume
reports/halting-hunt/margins/scripts/t347fam.py, which drives the fast map inmachines/1RB1RF_1RC0RA_1LD1RE_1LE0LE_0RA0LD_0RB---/scripts/deepen3_fast.py, from phase 15,304 on 686's start.reports/halting-hunt/parked/l347_resume.pyshows how to resume from a full-counter dump. - Log every phase with a ratio above 0.9.
- Whenever the ratio reaches 1 or more, save that phase start and run that one phase by direct simulation (
tools/simC core: about 2M² steps, roughly 1 to 3 minutes at M ≈ 1e5). - Cost: about 0.3 s per phase at M ≈ 1.6e5 (347's extension). The cost per phase grows with M, so 5e4 phases take about 6 h and 1e5 phases about a day.
- Cheaper extension: derive a J-rule-level phase map from 347's rule table (J-rule, aligned walk, k_align as a sum of carries over chain heads). It runs in O(digits) per phase instead of O(M).
Certification if it halts.
- First choice:
RWLAcc62_BigUintsolve_halt'with raised budgets (the RWLAccHaltv6.v route). The bell(10)^Mand the counter blocks are run-length friendly. - Fallback: a W5-5-style chunk replay of the phase model (
machines/1RB0RE_1RC0RA_0LD0RB_1LA0LE_1LC1LF_0LC---/*.v).
Risks.
- 347's tests show that mild breaks do not halt: 0 of 1,100 with M in [3k/4, k]. 6 of the 7 forced halts had M < k_align/3, so a halt needs a severe break.
- The 0.9755 spike may be a one-off: only 2 of 15,000 phases went above 0.5.
- 686 is not ours. It falls under our 'Bell eats counter' class claim, but it still needs its own claims line.
H-2: line 244, with 216 and 701 (Counter Class 3, CounterClass3v1 halter tables)
Signal.
- 244 is 1 transition from both CounterClass3v1 halting tables (the TM4 table, and the TM5/TM6 table, which are one table from two starts). 216 and 701 are 1 transition from the TM4 table. Checked here.
- Per the hints scout, the differing transition fires only during startup: 4 to 6 times, all before step 787,288. After that each machine runs a halter's table from its own configuration.
- The upstream accelerator (
astep/skip_lr,P0_n) checks out empirically on our tables. - The Python port reproduces TM4's own halt at 1.016e7 msteps.
- Ours run to 5.9e8 to 6.9e8 msteps without halting.
- Halting needs a consumption wave to leave the last tail block at 1. TM4 halted with tail
[..,118,16,1]. Our tails cycle through[..,23,12],[..,74,11](244) and[..,40,14,5](216/701).
Model route.
- Reuse
reports/halting-hunt/hints/cc3acc.pyandcc3trace.py. - Derive one consumption wave as one macro step: the tail-rebuild map.
- Validate it wave by wave against
cc3acc.pyfor every wave up to 6.9e8 msteps. - Run all three machines in one driver and log the tail at every wave.
- Keep a guard that the differing transition never fires again after startup. If it does, the model is no longer our machine.
Certification if it halts.
- Copy the CounterClass3v1 module (
P0_n,astep_spec,msteps_halt) with our TM string, a startup init and a largermstepsbudget. - This works while the halt is within roughly 1e9 msteps of
vm_compute. Beyond that, the wave step needs its own Rocq lemma.
Risks.
- Already 70x past TM4's halting point, and the tails are not trending toward 1.
reports/targeting.mdmarks Counter Class 3 as taken. Upstream's CounterClass3v2.v (10-07, "M1") is a macro-inductive nonhalting proof. Its machine is 7 transitions from ours and is not on the 740 list, but someone may be preparing nonhalting proofs for these three.- Upstream had this accelerator (with an
mstepsbudget of 10^10) and did not certify these three. Either they were never tried or they did not halt within that budget. - These three are kept despite the "taken" note for three reasons: the brief's exclusion list does not name Counter Class 3, the upstream work there is on the nonhalting side, and the signal is exceptional.
H-3: line 269, with 43 (R5, SO structural counter, ours STUCK)
Signal.
- The first counter overflow, at 4.391e15, did not halt. It reset the machine to an almost blank new epoch.
- Halting is decided at overflows. The halting path there is
0 <A 101, which halts in 4 steps (machines/1RB1LA_1RC1RE_1RD0RD_1LA1RC_1RF0LE_1RA---/work/r5_followup.md). - 43 is the same table from D, mirrored (checked here).
Model route.
- The seeded qsim (
reports/halting-hunt/parked/r5/r5q.py, fromwork/r5_post_ckpt.bin) matches direct simulation on the full 1.0066e8-cell tape. - Its 4 h run (
r5q_long.jsonl) is at 4.615e15 steps (loop 62M) with 0 prover rules, so it only does chain moves and cannot reach the next overflow. - Derive an epoch model: the counter's per-cycle consumption, the reservoir size and the overflow trigger. Fit it on epoch 1 (blank to 4.391e15) and on the start of epoch 2.
- Validate it against the r5q dumps and
scripts/r5run(direct C). - Fast-forward to the next overflow and apply the overflow rule, then repeat. Run 43 on the same model.
Certification if it halts. No template reaches that depth. It would need an epoch-level certified replay (in the style of C2-552's Sk1Auto certificate runner) or solve_halt', if run-length acceleration happens to suffice.
Risks.
- The next overflow is probably exponentially later than the first.
- If the epochs are self-similar, R5 is probably nonhalting.
r5_followup.mdlists the epoch-map stage as Dennis's call. Today's hunt approval covers exact models, but this should be stated when it is launched.
H-4: line 362, with 433 (Chaotic Bell Class 2)
Signal.
- The k=4 qsim run reached 10^145.8 steps in 180 s.
- It found 1,885 Collatz rules, each used once (one fresh epoch per rule). The log-steps gain per time doubling held at about 39, so the run is keeping up.
- 433 is the same table from C (checked here). Its run reached 10^135.7.
- RWLAccHaltv6.v certifies a halt of this table from 362's start B, so the halting branch is reachable from these dynamics.
Model route.
- Run
tools/qsim.py(.venv/bin/python -B, k=4, backsymbol + prover + recursive) as in the deep scout'sworker.py: 1 to 2 h per start, with progress lines,nice -n 10andulimit -v 6000000. - Add a k=2 run as a cross-check.
- On a HALT, re-derive the halt with an independent run-length simulator before any proof work.
Certification if it halts. RWLAcc62_BigUint solve_halt', the generic certified run-length executor already used on this exact table.
Risks.
- A lottery with no trend to watch.
- Upstream's RWLAcc sweep has probably already run these starts to some budget.
- qsim's prover rules reach further than run-length shifts. A halt at about 10^300 steps may therefore be out of
solve_halt''s reach, and there is no template for replaying qsim's rules in Rocq. - qsim can blow its memory limit (518's k=2 run died at the cap).
Notable rejections
| Line(s) | Why not a pick |
|---|---|
| 561 / 372 (Skelet 1-like Class 2, our cryptid candidates) | Strongest proof route of all, through C2-552's certificate runner, and R4's top cycle sits at the halting residue N = 27 ≡ 2 (mod 5). But Dennis's 10-12 decision was stop_cryptid, "no more compute", and he declined exactly this recursive-model option. Held for a priority call, not auto-launched. Lower digits switch the outcome irregularly, and the frozen levels have not released between 4.8e17 and 1e80. |
| 358 / 478 (Structural counter + chaotic edge) | Best probabilistic signal (a 5-stage halting chain, about 1% per seed), but there is no model. Building the mixed-zone accelerator is the stage Dennis stopped on 10-10. The coin model puts a halt near 1e49 steps. |
| 602, 730, 577, 338, 412, 299 (Chaotic Bell Class 1) | Same tables as the certified halts in ChaoticBell1Halt.v, but qsim cannot see this class and ccz181078's RLE executor has been active on it since 10-11. A race, so a priority call for Dennis. |
| 486 (our cryptid candidate) | Margins grow: 3 to 5 bits per octave from 2^23 to 2^28, after the 1-bit miss at 2^22. Two scouts already extended it to 4e7 phases. |
| 239 (B-4) | No exact model (the residue map is open). Every overflow residue at a = 7 and a = 8 survives (margins scout). Its 30-min qsim run is in chain B. |
| 659 (R2), 202 (R3), 191 (#29) | Exact C models already run far (N = 2e9, N = 2^35.1 and N = 1.6e8), and the margins are growing: R2's t-clear margin went from 8 to 16, R3 has at least 3 bits at every octave, and #29's minimum slack is 4. The R2/R3 extensions continue in chain B. |
| 347, 441 | The same family as H-1, and their orbits stay at or below 0.467 / 0.42. H-1 covers the table. |
| 99 / 612 (W4-6), 317 / 707 (W4-7), 409 | No events in their exact models: 0 A-zero-gap events to 2^30.1, 0 FLAGs in 1e9 passes, and an exhaustion distance of 13 or more. |
| 556 (#19), 162 | Same overflow blocker as R5 with no exact rebuild rule. Dennis parked #19 on 10-10. 162 is #19's relative and 3 transitions from R5. |
| 110 | Four human hints, and the same table halts from B at 27.2M steps. But it is possibly tetrational, qsim finds no rules, and a level accelerator would be new work, with any halt probably beyond certificate reach. |
| 1, 45, 52, 152, 291 (explosive Collatz) | 10^1440 to 10^19415 steps with no halt. Any halt would be astronomically late. |
| 21 | Sensitive to -1 changes (8 of 120 halt) and seen by three scouts, but fragility is not a shrinking margin, and there is no model. |
| 126, 26, 122, 139, 234, 554, 595, 618, 720 (SC+CE) | Class prior only. All are on mxdys's UBRRBA list. |
| 625 (ours, STUCK) | A halting route exists in the defect algebra, but the next dirty events are exponentially far away and need a new counter model. 1 of 64 ±1 changes halts. |
| 211, 635, 96 | Their Collatz-like phase maps are incomplete. 635's qsim run mostly stalls. |
| 32, 262, 351, 616 | Their table halts from another start at 17.8M steps, but these are chaotic 1D CA with no accelerator, so a late halt is uncertifiable. |
| 151, 515 | 151 has only "may halt" with no mechanism. 515 is Bell-like (a mined class), and its halt needs about 1e12 Hydra iterations. |
| 79, 611 (our cryptid candidates) | 79's hit probability per birth converges. 611's slack margin is never approached on the orbit. |
Running processes (when the next stage starts)
Both of our heavy slots are taken:
- R5 seeded qsim (
r5slot.sh, 4 h cap from 17:36). This is H-3's validation baseline. - Chain B. The 239 qsim run until about 19:01, then R2 to 3e10 (up to 3 h), then R3 to 1e10 (up to 2 h).
The W4-6 hybx (pid 509176) is paused with SIGSTOP and resumes when R5's run ends.
Recommendation: end chain B after the 239 run, since the R2/R3 extensions were rejected as picks above. That frees a slot for H-1 or H-2. Keep hybx paused or end it.
Critic (2026-10-13, 19:15)
The critic re-checked every pick for claims, ownership, cryptid status and settlement, and re-read the four scout tables for signals that fell through. Nothing here is a kill.
Verdict. All four picks stay, but the order changes and each one gets corrections:
- H-1 stays 686, with a corrected signal: the near-miss was an early transient.
- 362 moves up to H-2. The frame labels in its write-up were wrong.
- The Counter Class 3 family moves down to H-3. Upstream works this class for halting, 216 is on the sheet's Level 1 tab, and the cheap certificate's reach is nearly used up.
- R5 moves down to H-4. Both of its starts are on mxdys's UBRRBA to-do list, and its epoch-map stage was left for Dennis to decide.
No strong signal fell through.
Checks run (table level: any start state, mirror and renaming)
| Check | Result |
|---|---|
coord/claims.tsv |
No pick table is owned by astra. Astra's tables on the 740 list are lines 443/463/638, 533/615, 6/348, 282, 465, 593 and 715, and none of them meets a pick family. 269 is ours (STUCK). 347 is ours (STUCK, "cryptid-margin suspect"). 686 falls under our 'Bell eats counter' class claim. Claims still needed: 686, 362, 433, 244, 216, 701 and 43. |
| Cryptid status | No pick family has a CRYPTID_CANDIDATE member. 347's table is STUCK, not a cryptid candidate, so simulation and a halting certificate are both allowed. |
| Open busycoq PRs #3, #4, #13, #17, #18 (fetched now; #17's files read from its branch) | No pick table appears in any of them. |
| Upstream after our pin, 0940bb9..d026880 (14 new files: ChaoticBell1Halt, Cubic50, CubicMachines_v2, Eqv_WordPairs, Eqv_RegularPairs and our merged PRs) | No pick table appears. Nothing is settled. |
data/solved_index.tsv |
All picks are absent. 43 and 433 are only "mentioned": they are the representatives in Eqv_v2.v equivalences. |
| Vendor (pin) | The ranking's "no vendor file contains the strings of the picks" is slightly wrong: Eqv_v2.v contains 43's and 433's own strings, as equivalence representatives, so nothing is settled. Same-table hits from other starts: RWLAccHaltv6.v (362's table, halts), RWL_mod_v3.v (R5's table from 269's B, C and E, all nonhalting), RWLAccHaltv3.v (561/372's table, halts) and RWLAccHaltv1.v (110's table, halts). |
| Sheet | 216 is on the Level 1 tab ("worked on extensively", done by nickdrozd). 701 is on Level 0 ("least common transitions"). The other picks appear only in the classifications and results tabs, with no status or notes. |
| Saved Discord lists | 269 and 43 are both on mxdys's UBRRBA_TODO list (2026-08-24: holdouts "easy to accelerate by UBRRBA", for halting runs; q64 offered about 500 cores). 358/478 and 110 are on it too. The hipparcos and dyuan lists contain no pick. |
Corrections per pick
H-1, line 686: keep, with the signal restated.
- Both phases above 0.5 are early: phase 725 (0.73) and phase 1572 (0.9755).
- Over the 10,300 phases from 5,000 to 15,304, the maximum is 0.424. That is the level of 347's own orbit (0.467) and 441's (0.42).
- Tail counts over 15,000 phases:
ratio > 0.2: 102 > 0.3: 24 > 0.4: 5 > 0.5: 2
- An exponential fit to that tail gives a mild break (ratio above 1) about once per 10^6 to 10^7 phases. The 0.9755 outlier itself sits above that fit, so the true tail may be heavier. A halt needs a severe break.
- It is still H-1 for two reasons: it has the only validated exact model whose halting mechanism (a margin break) is known, and resuming costs one existing driver and no new code. Expect a low yield per day of compute.
H-2 (was H-4), line 362 with 433: move up, and fix the start labels.
- In 362's own labels, the upstream halter (RWLAccHaltv6.v
tm128, halting at(F,1)) is this table started from F, not B. (B is 362's start in the halter's labels.) - 433 is this table started from 362's E. (C is 362's start in 433's labels.) Eqv_v2.v's partner of 433 starts from 362's D.
- Only one start of this table halts upstream. The deep scout's "433 @D;@F" counts the same halter twice.
- It moves up because it is the cheapest pick: existing qsim, 1 to 2 h per start, no new model. It is also the only pick whose certificate route (
solve_halt') has already been used on this exact table. - Optional: run 428 (Chaotic Bell Class 2, 10^115.8 at k=2 in 180 s) in the same slot.
H-3 (was H-2), line 244 with 216 and 701: move down.
- Counter Class 3 is a class worked by others for halting. CounterClass3v1.v (mxdys, 08-15) holds three halting certificates built with exactly this accelerator, and
reports/targeting.md§2.2 lists the class as taken. The brief's "exceptional signal" bar applies, and the class's own author had these machines and this tool. - 216 is on the Level 1 tab (nickdrozd).
- The cheap certificate (copy CounterClass3v1 with a bigger
mstepsbudget) reaches about 1e9 msteps. Our runs already sit at 5.9e8 to 6.9e8. So nearly any halt found from here on needs a new Rocq lemma for the wave step. - Run the wave map only as a short first stage, with an exit rule: if the last tail block (11 to 12 for 244, 5 for 216/701) is invariant under the wave map, stop and write it up. That is nonhalting evidence, and nonhalting is the side upstream is working on (CounterClass3v2.v).
H-4 (was H-3), line 269 with 43 (R5): move down.
- mxdys listed both starts for UBRRBA halting runs in August.
- Upstream proves the table nonhalting from three other starts (RWL_mod_v3.v).
- The epoch-map stage was the 10-10 option Dennis did not pick (he picked
watch).work/r5_followup.mdline 100 still lists it "for Dennis to decide". Launching it under the 10-13 hunt approval is defensible because it is simulation of our own STUCK machine, but tell Dennis in one line when it starts. - The seeded qsim run continues to its 4 h cap (about 21:36). At 19:14 it was at 4.629e15 steps, still with 0 prover rules.
Fell through the record (none displaces a pick)
| Line | Signal | Why not a pick |
|---|---|---|
| 623 (Unknown) | ±1 on small exponents near the edge halts in 12 of 62 cases (margins scout) | Fragility, not a shrinking margin, and there is no model (same reason as 21). |
| 534 (Unknown) | Zone T halts on constructed short-gap bursts | Never on the machine's own orbit. |
| 440 (Chaotic Fractal Others) | Leaks only in perturbed frames | Never on the orbit. |
| 33 (Translated Counter) | Sheet note: "Has to halt in the counting phase" | That says where a halt would happen, not that one happens. M-Abozaid works the class (SOTCv2). |
| 3 (Chaotic 1dCA in bouncer) | 1 transition from an RWLAccHaltv3 halter | The differing D0 keeps firing (86 times in 1e8 steps), so the halter's run does not carry over. |
| 428, 518, 61, 11 | Collatz lotteries in the deep scout (0.06) | No same-table halter. 428 is the optional add-on to H-2. 11 is in Chaotic Fractal Type 1, which others work (FractalType7). |
Processes (19:14)
- Slot 1: r5q (H-4's baseline) runs to about 21:36. Then
r5slot.shresumes the W4-6hybx. - Slot 2: chain B has moved on. The 239 qsim ended at 18:58 (1.08e14 steps, 12 rules, 0 Collatz rules, no halt), and R2 to 3e10 has been running since 18:58 (cap 3 h), with R3 next (cap 2 h). The ranking's advice to end chain B after the 239 run is overtaken. It stays as is.
- Orphan, a third heavy process on our side (the limit is 2): a
tmsimon line 469 (W4-5) with--max-steps inf, started at about 18:07 by the margins scout (cwdscratchpad/mh). Its parent is gone, and nothing holds the other end of its stdin/stdout/stderr pipes. Its output cannot be read, and a halt would kill it with SIGPIPE before anything is recorded. Not stopped by the critic. It is the orchestrator's call: stop it, or rerun it with a log file. - Load is 3.0 and MemAvailable is 21 GB, so the per-agent slot rule is the limit, not the machine. No pick can start until a slot frees.